Civic Entrepreneur And Advocate, Sam White Talks White Privilege, #METOO AND Donald Trump
WITH SAM WHITE
Sam White: An astute young man with potent energy, indeed. Nerdy, Reflective, Forthright, and Thoughtful.
Photography, Frederic Georges
Words, Caleb Church In Conversation with Sam White
VIEW GALLERY
Originally from Cranford, New Jersey, a majority white middle-class suburb, Sam White quickly realized that his family did things differently from other families. His parents treating him like a “grown human being” from a young age and taking the time to talk about issues that might be a bit more complicated than commonly considered appropriate, gave him that sharp wit and seasoned perspective we love about him.
In early 2015, Sam became a social sensation (@samwhiteout) when videos surfaced of him “strolling” with the members of his predominantly black fraternity at Villanova University, a private Catholic research institution in Radnor Township, Pennsylvania. These videos quickly became viral, gaining traction on Twitter, Youtube, and news outlets such as TMZ.
I’m better than I was yesterday, but I’m always working on what kind of man I want to be.
THE LOOK
Tuxedo Jacket, Institchu; Turtleneck, Suit Supply; Sunglasses, Versace
Since graduating from Villanova University, Sam now spends his time collaborating with civil rights organizations & non-profits on social impact projects and talking with young people about advocacy and civic engagement. Central to Sam’s message of #BeYouBeGreat is the idea that you do not have to identify as something to care about it or recognize its value – allyship is an essential tool in strategically working towards progress.
To understand the strong mindset and thought process of the complexities and nuances of Sam’s perspective, we dove deep into a thought-provoking conversation uncovering his thoughts on race, feminism, and the 2020 U.S. Presidential Election.
BO: Would you say there was anything different about your upbringing compared to what you were seeing as the norm at the time?
SW: From a very young age, my parents treated my sister and I like adults. That meant taking the time to talk about things that are important and making it approachable. It’s very popular now for people to throw out big words to seem smart and try to see how many people they can exclude from a conversation. I think that’s pretty cheap.
I was always very mindful of trying to understand something so well that I could to talk to anyone about it. I think that’s a very good insight into what it was like growing up in my family. We were never treated like we were stupid.
I love to tell the story of the time I saw the movie In The Heat Of The Night on Friday and then went to school on Monday, and something clicked. You know, you talk to your friends about what they did over the weekend and you start to realize that maybe everyone’s family isn’t watching movies like that for family night. Not that that makes you an expert. It definitely does not. I think it’s part of what taught me that being different isn’t inherently bad. The other thing it taught me was to embrace being curious and to embrace enjoying learning.
BO: Isn’t there a quote along the lines of “if you cannot explain a topic to a 6 year old, then you do not fully understand that topic?”
SW: I think that’s a little disrespectful to 6-year-olds, frankly, because they are not dumb. People have a particular mode of communication that is literally designed to exclude people based on age, cultural experiences, race, or gender. I think the more we try to distill our ideas down so that we can explain them to everyone, the better.
BO: Do you feel that being white in America and also having the perspective you did growing up opened your mind in a unique way?
SW: I like to practice vulnerability openly. I am no less capable of racism than any other white person just because my parents talked about politics in the house. To suggest otherwise that would be grossly negligent. I am no less capable of sexism as a man than anyone else in this society. I think the difference is being able to recognize that – not as some kind of personal flaw, but as the result of institutions and systems that were designed that way – and to push back on it with genuine reflection and self-improvement. This is not some hallmark card version of “just be you” but actually figuring out who you are. What does it mean to be you, and how does that affect other people being them? That question requires you to realize that you aren’t perfect and face your flaws – real flaws.
BO: After leaving home, what was your experience at Villanova University like?
SW: It was not a nice place for me. I think Villanova branded itself very effectively as open and inclusive. From the very start, they used the word “community” ad-nauseum. The problem is that you realize that it’s a community for some people at the explicit expense of others.
BO: When do you think you realized that? Was it on the first visit?
SW: No. At first, I was very surprised, but within the first two weeks, you realize that the talk of “community” was horse sh*t. I think this was accelerated by the fact that my roommate was practically a Nazi. He seemed to be genuinely surprised that I was not okay with the N-word being thrown around. There was anti-Semitism, classic bullying, stealing my stuff, messing with my computer, etc. When I would take walks to get out of that space, I used to take all my valuables and put them into my backpack.
I think what shocked me was just how blatant of a bystander effect there was. Villanova was not full of Nazis, it seemed like a Nazi could walk around campus and not enough people would have a problem with it.
I like to practice open vulnerability. I am no less capable of racism than any other white person just because my parents talked about politics in the house.
THE LOOK
Wrist Watch, Carl F. Bucherer
BO: You mentioned Greek life for a moment. Let’s talk about that?
SW: The short story is that my best friends were the Ques, and it was through the Ques (members of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Incorporated) that I knew the Nupes (members of Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Incorporated). The Kappas were the guys who were outside doing the real sh*t on campus. They weren’t just doing things for the photos and a pat on the back, but they were doing things like public health initiatives and voter registration drives. They were also throwing some of the best parties on campus.
Having already gotten involved in formalized advocacy, Greek Life was something that gave me the opportunity to do even more of what I was passionate about. It also gave me the opportunity to pay it forward for brothers who came in after me.
BO: How was your first time getting involved in activism and how did it go?
SW: For me there wasn’t really a first moment. I just started showing up – physically showing up to events on campus and then saying how can I get things done? Do I know this person or that person who can be useful? In fact, I basically blackmailed the school to get the Taekwondo team up and running and pressure administrators to address various issues on campus. The stuff that happened to me freshmen year was absolutely insane, and if they didn’t want The Philadelphia Inquirer to hear about it, then they needed to do something in these areas where students were being disregarded.
Eventually, you look back and realize “I see the arc here.” That Villanova experience as a whole was not formative. It showed me who I had always been.
The other thing I like to tell people is that you are more than the worst thing that’s ever happened to you and better than the worst thing you’ve ever done. That doesn’t discount the existence or the impact of those things, but they are not primarily what defines you. If you let them primarily define you, you’ll end up in a sort of cyclical downward spiral.
BO: Do you feel like your arc and path from attending Villanova until now was very intentional?
SW: I don’t know about “intentional.” I think it makes sense. I feel like the arc makes sense, and what I care about then is still what I care about now. A lot of what we’re talking about speaks to the resources available to be productive. I was incredibly depressed as a freshman, not sleeping etc. As a result, 18-year-old Sam didn’t do as much. He was depressed and just trying to make it through the day.
Recently, a young undocumented Latina student approached me and asked, “How am I supposed to focus on a test when there are people just like me being locked in cages.” That broke my heart, especially because of how conflicted she seemed. I told her it’s ok to take a break and take care of yourself because you have to be strong enough tomorrow to get up and keep fighting for what you want. It’s ok to focus on your test. It’s not some kind of betrayal. I think that’s hard, and we don’t give enough credence to it because it’s not sexy to talk about.
THE LOOK
Tuxedo Jacket, Kooples; Shirt, Calvin Klein; Bow Tie, Gucci
BO: Being able to be in New York having this conversation, we both benefit from relative privilege. However, I think that we all share a responsibility to take care of ourselves in a way that allows us to do the things we set out to do. What is your perspective on self-care?
SW: There’s something in the Jewish tradition that says that if you give so much to charity to the point of then needing charity, you’ve created a problem. That’s a financial example. It makes me think about Brittany Packnett, an incredible writer and educator, who is like a big sister to me. She uses the phrase “spending your privilege.” I think that’s what it’s about. I cannot change the way that a police officer may interact with me differently than they may interact with you. However, what I can do is: say that out loud, highlight the voices that are demanding reform, and lastly, I can show up whenever possible to practice solidarity.
BO: There’s also the opportunity to plant seeds in people’s minds. No?
SW: For sure. The people you’re closest to are the people you’re most willing to be open and vulnerable with. I had a student ask me what she should do because her dad was a huge Trump supporter and if she didn’t stop talking about it, he would stop paying for her school. I thanked her for sharing that and said, “I’m not going to tell you what to do, but do you really think that arguing with him and then not being able to go to school is a productive step forward? That won’t help. What does that do to improve the lives of the people that you’re trying to advocate for? It’s unfortunate and sad, but it’s a lot more useful for you to graduate than to argue fruitlessly and lose access to school.”
I like to remind people, you can have all the passion in the world, but it is completely and totally useless without any strategy. You can also have the most brilliant strategy in the world. However, without any passion, it’s utterly wasted.
BO: What do you have to say to the people who criticize you for the source of your notoriety?
SW: I think there’s two things. If you’re not skeptical of white people who engage in issues of race and gender, then you’re not paying attention. I think the skepticism is appropriate. I cared about these issues long before anyone cared about who I was. My reaction to the spotlight was to say loudly and acknowledge why that spotlight is there. I would not have that spotlight if I was not white, if I wasn’t a man, and if I wasn’t conventionally attractive. Instead of being ashamed of this spotlight, my goal is to use that spotlight as a way of deconstructing the conditions that created it.
If you’re not skeptical of white people who engage in issues with race and gender, then you’re not paying attention.
THE LOOK
Tuxedo Jacket, Kooples; Turtleneck, H&M
BO: Let’s talk feminism for a bit. I find that the meaning behind it all can be a bit misconstrued. What are your thoughts and feelings on the subject?
SW: Feminism to me means that women matter just as much as men without qualification or reservation. It’s about equity. It’s not just about equality because men and women are not the same. Just like how you and I are not the same. It means that we should have equitable access to resources. We should have equitable treatment legally, socially, politically, etc.
BO: Your definition is so simple.
SW: In principle, a lot of it is simple. Sexism is bad, racism is bad, white supremacy is bad. The problem that people face is that they get scared of indicting a system that implicates them. I am not afraid of indicting a system that implicates me. Racism implicates me. Sexism implicates me. I can either deal with that or run and hide. I have no intention of running and hiding.
BO: What do you feel are the major points that are misconstrued about feminism and why would you change them?
SW: I think it’s no different than Black Lives Matter. When you critique injustice, people love to take that to an extreme that distorts the issue. So when I say “Black Lives Matter '' and someone says “All Lives Matter,” I want to point out that I wasn’t talking about all lives. I was talking about Black Lives. People reveal themselves more than they realize. So “All Lives Matter” as a response to “Black Lives Matter” is a pretty explicit tell that you don’t think black lives and white lives mattered the same to begin with. Suggesting that feminism somehow hates men is telling on yourself because you’re basically admitting that the current system hates women and that some sort of parity is actually oppression.
When we talk about ending state violence, and we say something like “we do not want black people murdered by police”, that does not say that we want white people murdered by the police. It means “I don’t want people murdered by police.”
BO: Would you say that the larger pitfall to things across the board from feminism to racism is the fear of a loss of power from the oppressor?
SW: Of course! There is also the fear of maybe realizing that there are things and opportunities that you got in your life that you didn’t earn.
BO: Or maybe the fear of not being able to perform without privilege?
SW: Yeah! Absolutely. I think that a level playing field scares people that they wouldn’t perform as well on a level playing field. I’m going to be frank with you. I get credit all the time for things I shouldn’t get credit for because the bar is so low. I would like to raise the bar. I think I’m pretty smart, capable, and skilled. I like to think that I would reach the bar and pass the bar even if we raised it a whole lot.
I think people are always scared about what they will find out about themselves and the people they used to look up to. What does it mean to confront white supremacy in a way that makes you look at the people who raised you and realize they have real serious character flaws that they chose not to work on. Can you still love that person? What does that love look like?
BO: How do you feel the “Me Too” movement has affected men’s culture?
SW: The only changes that have taken place in men’s culture as a result of the “Me Too” movement speak to how violent and dangerous men’s culture has always been. The only thing that the “Me Too” movement says is that men in power and privilege are not above the law and are not above morality. So, you should be very skeptical of men who are afraid of “what can I say” or “what can I do” in response to the “Me Too” movement.
THE LOOK
Shirt, BOSS
BO: What does being a real man mean to you?
SW: There are so many ways to be a real man. These are social constructs. Sex and gender are not the same thing. I think there’s so many ways to express femininity and masculinity. I’m always working on what kind of man I want to be. I’m still figuring that part out. Before you can answer what it means to be a man, you must first tear down all the things that have nothing to do with being a man – like aggressiveness, rage, sexism, and perceived sexual power. When you take those things away, what does it look like? That’s the kind of man I want to be.
BO: Is there any such thing as the male form of feminism?
SW: No. The opposite of feminism is sexism. The opposite of justice is injustice not a different type of justice.
vote for the person that you want to be president, not the person who you think the pundits want to see win, or that you think can beat Trump.
BO: How are you staying on top of the current election and fighting for the values we just spoke about?
SW: The simplest way to put it is that every single Democratic candidate, with the exception of Tulsi Gabbard, is more qualified to be president than Donald Trump. That is very simple. It is also a low bar that we should never accept as the standard. It requires that we push candidates to not just be better than Trump, but offer real progress.
My advice for people to stay engaged in the primary is to read, to listen, and to trust your gut. When you go to cast your vote, vote for the person that you want to be president – not the person who you think the pundits want to see win or that you think can beat Trump. If everyone tries to play the “who can win” game, we’re all going to lose.
BO: Does it surprise you that President Trump was able to win in the first place? Of course, the president is indicative of the state of America. However, what kinds of levers is he pulling to do what he’s doing?
SW: I was disappointed but not surprised. The Republican Party has attacked the judicial system for 30 years. We’re seeing the results of that. They’re installing bigoted unqualified federal justices who will be on the federal bench for the rest of their lives. That’s one of the many level being pulled that endanger every ounce of progress that was made in the last 60 years.
BO: How do you sort through the rhetoric to get to what really matters?
SW: There is no real clear path through the fog. You try your best. Read about the candidates, listen to what they say, and look at their records. As Maya Angelou says, “When people show you who they are, believe them.” At the end of the day when we have a nominee, go vote for them and tell your friends to vote for them, engage in down ballot races on the state and local level and good things will happen. Small elections matter, too.
BO: How are you using social media to influence everyday culture and bring light to the topics that you want millennials to hear about?
SW: My use of social media is a function of the question, “What is my value add? What can I introduce to the conversation that makes a difference and is not just talking myself in circles to make myself feel better?”
One of the most important things that anyone striving to be an ally can do is knowing when to shut up. There are plenty of opinions I may have that may not carry the productivity that I would like them to, so they don’t need to be shared. Is my goal to toot my own horn, or to help people? If my goal is to help people, then the question becomes, “how can I do that effectively?” Sometimes that means just listening.
